I think you should examine why you became so attached to such an unworthy man. He had the unmitigated gall to punish you for seeing another man when all that time he was married? By the way, what he did was illegal - you should have pressed charges. But essentially, this is a guy who took advantage of a very young woman and manipulated her into a relationship that suited him. And who lashed out horribly when things didn't go his way. He was never worthy of you - ever. And not worth your mind space now.
From my observations, those types of relationships are alluring because of the forbidden nature of them, plus the uncertainty, which the brain translates into "excitement" and "passion". So they are given a heightened importance that is illusory. Once you are able to really apply this knowledge to your relationship with him, the spell will fade. It will take time, but I promise you - it will.
If what I've been seeing on social media is any indication, many people have found that their minds are going to places they don't expect. So your fixation on this old relationship isn't so surprising. What I'd recommend is finding a therapist you can see via video chat or nearest equivalent - to help you sort out these lingering feelings and to un-do the damage he did, as well as work out why you were drawn to him in the first place. And yes - once you do the work to get past this, you will be in a position to find something much better than the illusion you had with your ex.
From my observations, those types of relationships are alluring because of the forbidden nature of them, plus the uncertainty, which the brain translates into "excitement" and "passion". So they are given a heightened importance that is illusory. Once you are able to really apply this knowledge to your relationship with him, the spell will fade. It will take time, but I promise you - it will.
If what I've been seeing on social media is any indication, many people have found that their minds are going to places they don't expect. So your fixation on this old relationship isn't so surprising. What I'd recommend is finding a therapist you can see via video chat or nearest equivalent - to help you sort out these lingering feelings and to un-do the damage he did, as well as work out why you were drawn to him in the first place. And yes - once you do the work to get past this, you will be in a position to find something much better than the illusion you had with your ex.
reply to Jill
send this answer to a friendYup, there's definitely a few things to sort out here.... He was cheating on his wife with someone who was 21 years younger and in her "first adult relationship" (so he was looking for someone comparatively immature that he could feel comfortable dominating/manipulating). Then he behaved like a psychopath when it ended; cut off all contact when he realised he *couldn't* dominate or manipulate you; then he found another much younger woman whom apparently he *can* dominate, and married her ASAP.
Yikes!
Anon, you don't love this guy. You love the idea of who he could be, if all the negative traits went away. In other words, he'd be perfect if only he were a completely different person...
And so you yearn for the impossible ideal of how wonderful things *could* have been -- if only the flashes of decent behaviour were real and became the constant norm, and the awful sullen moodiness, jealousy, lies, duplicity and temper tantrums just magically disappeared.
Now, you don't mention what your family life was like growing up ... but the sort of mindset you're describing is not uncommon amongst people who grew up in dysfunctional households of one sort or another. A child in a dysfunctional household can see some irrational, narcissistic or even awful behaviour, and establish that behaviour as "normal" -- even desirable. And that child can also love a parent despite some pretty big flaws, and come to believe that they can (or should) ONLY love a person with similar flaws.
This in turn can make real, adult relationships challenging for that grown-up child. There can be some deep-seated assumptions about self-worth, and about how a romantic partner should behave -- and those assumptions can really do some damage unless they are properly brought into the open and worked on.
All of which is to say -- listen to Jill! A therapist can really help you figure out why you're feeling the way you feel, and can help you get past this. *And* they can help to put you in a position where you will feel much more comfortable relating to someone who is worthy of your time and your partnership!
Oh, and one more thing -- you ask "Are these feelings dumb?"
No!
These feelings (including the feeling that things are 'unresolved') are your mind's way of telling you that there is something you need to work on. It's actually a very good sign that you KNOW something isn't quite right here. Far from being dumb, you're showing emotional intelligence ... you've identified the feeling, you know it isn't right, and now you're looking for a way to work on making things better. I hope you take the next step, and find a good therapist to help you through this!
Yikes!
Anon, you don't love this guy. You love the idea of who he could be, if all the negative traits went away. In other words, he'd be perfect if only he were a completely different person...
And so you yearn for the impossible ideal of how wonderful things *could* have been -- if only the flashes of decent behaviour were real and became the constant norm, and the awful sullen moodiness, jealousy, lies, duplicity and temper tantrums just magically disappeared.
Now, you don't mention what your family life was like growing up ... but the sort of mindset you're describing is not uncommon amongst people who grew up in dysfunctional households of one sort or another. A child in a dysfunctional household can see some irrational, narcissistic or even awful behaviour, and establish that behaviour as "normal" -- even desirable. And that child can also love a parent despite some pretty big flaws, and come to believe that they can (or should) ONLY love a person with similar flaws.
This in turn can make real, adult relationships challenging for that grown-up child. There can be some deep-seated assumptions about self-worth, and about how a romantic partner should behave -- and those assumptions can really do some damage unless they are properly brought into the open and worked on.
All of which is to say -- listen to Jill! A therapist can really help you figure out why you're feeling the way you feel, and can help you get past this. *And* they can help to put you in a position where you will feel much more comfortable relating to someone who is worthy of your time and your partnership!
Oh, and one more thing -- you ask "Are these feelings dumb?"
No!
These feelings (including the feeling that things are 'unresolved') are your mind's way of telling you that there is something you need to work on. It's actually a very good sign that you KNOW something isn't quite right here. Far from being dumb, you're showing emotional intelligence ... you've identified the feeling, you know it isn't right, and now you're looking for a way to work on making things better. I hope you take the next step, and find a good therapist to help you through this!
reply to Kal
send this answer to a friend"Once I did end it, my ex sent me threatening emails, hacked into my accounts, made fake social media profiles with my name, and basically stunned me into cutting off all communication with him. He found out I had been seeing someone else and was livid. He even sent an email telling this to my father (who he had never met).
The thing is .... I loved my ex. I still love him to this day."
Anon, please take a moment and read this excerpt from your post above...
He is so very toxic, and you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. Your intuition and gut instinct is on to something, and you should absolutely trust it.
I was in back to back toxic relationships. So trust me I understand and can empathize with the other part of you that is in Reality 2 at the moment. That 'Reality 2' (as my therapist likes to call it) is the one that is originating from a pool of dysfunction. As Kal and Jill have wisely touched on above, perhaps that pool is full of a lacking of self-worth? Could it be full of examples of what your parents modeled growing up? Etc.
We all have dysfunctional beliefs that can hold us back in relationships and life. Some more than others, and in different areas. It's normal and common! But you just have to make sure you work on your awareness of them so you don't keep drawing toxic types or toxic situations into your life. And yeah sadly its hard work! And ridding yourself of unhealthy relationship patterns can take timeeee. But, the fact that you're here posting questioning what really happened in your relationships, shows that you are on that path.
One that is holding you back here is believing that the level of chaos you experienced in your past relationship with this much older predatory man was a healthy love.
As as you note in your post, was it "passion" you were experiencing with this man? Or what it chaos, manipulation, and a lot of drama that was very exciting to some degree. But passion? He was passionate about manipulating you, and having his cake and eating it too. This would be Reality 1.
He took advantage of the fact that you were **21 years** younger than him, and that's predatory. So please don't beat yourself up either, you were victimized by him as well. He knew better, and he clearly he preys on young women to take control of.
If I could suggest anything, of the best things you can do is seek therapy. I've been in therapy for the past 6 years and it's been life changing in allowing me to process what happened. It's allowed me to know what to look for in relationships and what not to look for, and to get a lot better about actually trusting myself. When you trust yourself it's harder for people to take advantage of you.
Please let us know how you're doing, Anon! Or if there is anything else you want to post about we are here for support. Xx.
The thing is .... I loved my ex. I still love him to this day."
Anon, please take a moment and read this excerpt from your post above...
He is so very toxic, and you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. Your intuition and gut instinct is on to something, and you should absolutely trust it.
I was in back to back toxic relationships. So trust me I understand and can empathize with the other part of you that is in Reality 2 at the moment. That 'Reality 2' (as my therapist likes to call it) is the one that is originating from a pool of dysfunction. As Kal and Jill have wisely touched on above, perhaps that pool is full of a lacking of self-worth? Could it be full of examples of what your parents modeled growing up? Etc.
We all have dysfunctional beliefs that can hold us back in relationships and life. Some more than others, and in different areas. It's normal and common! But you just have to make sure you work on your awareness of them so you don't keep drawing toxic types or toxic situations into your life. And yeah sadly its hard work! And ridding yourself of unhealthy relationship patterns can take timeeee. But, the fact that you're here posting questioning what really happened in your relationships, shows that you are on that path.
One that is holding you back here is believing that the level of chaos you experienced in your past relationship with this much older predatory man was a healthy love.
As as you note in your post, was it "passion" you were experiencing with this man? Or what it chaos, manipulation, and a lot of drama that was very exciting to some degree. But passion? He was passionate about manipulating you, and having his cake and eating it too. This would be Reality 1.
He took advantage of the fact that you were **21 years** younger than him, and that's predatory. So please don't beat yourself up either, you were victimized by him as well. He knew better, and he clearly he preys on young women to take control of.
If I could suggest anything, of the best things you can do is seek therapy. I've been in therapy for the past 6 years and it's been life changing in allowing me to process what happened. It's allowed me to know what to look for in relationships and what not to look for, and to get a lot better about actually trusting myself. When you trust yourself it's harder for people to take advantage of you.
Please let us know how you're doing, Anon! Or if there is anything else you want to post about we are here for support. Xx.
reply to Barbara
send this answer to a friendBarbara wrote: "Once I did end it, my ex sent me threatening emails, hacked into my accounts, made fake social media profiles with my name, and basically stunned me into cutting off all communication with him. He found out I had been seeing someone else and was livid. He even sent an email telling this to my father (who he had never met).
The thing is .... I loved my ex. I still love him to this day."
Anon, please take a moment and read this excerpt from your post above...
He is so very toxic, and you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. Your intuition and gut instinct is on to something, and you should absolutely trust it.
I was in back to back toxic relationships. So trust me I understand and can empathize with the other part of you that is in Reality 2 at the moment. That 'Reality 2' (as my therapist likes to call it) is the one that is originating from a pool of dysfunction. As Kal and Jill have wisely touched on above, perhaps that pool is full of a lacking of self-worth? Could it be full of examples of what your parents modeled growing up? Etc.
We all have dysfunctional beliefs that can hold us back in relationships and life. Some more than others, and in different areas. It's normal and common! But you just have to make sure you work on your awareness of them so you don't keep drawing toxic types or toxic situations into your life. And yeah sadly its hard work! And ridding yourself of unhealthy relationship patterns can take timeeee. But, the fact that you're here posting questioning what really happened in your relationships, shows that you are on that path.
One that is holding you back here is believing that the level of chaos you experienced in your past relationship with this much older predatory man was a healthy love.
As as you note in your post, was it "passion" you were experiencing with this man? Or what it chaos, manipulation, and a lot of drama that was very exciting to some degree. But passion? He was passionate about manipulating you, and having his cake and eating it too. This would be Reality 1.
He took advantage of the fact that you were **21 years** younger than him, and that's predatory. So please don't beat yourself up either, you were victimized by him as well. He knew better, and he clearly he preys on young women to take control of.
If I could suggest anything, of the best things you can do is seek therapy. I've been in therapy for the past 6 years and it's been life changing in allowing me to process what happened. It's allowed me to know what to look for in relationships and what not to look for, and to get a lot better about actually trusting myself. When you trust yourself it's harder for people to take advantage of you.
Please let us know how you're doing, Anon! Or if there is anything else you want to post about we are here for support. Xx.
reply to anonymous
send this answer to a friend
Thanks so much for all of your comments. I am looking for a virtual therapist to talk to about this.
Just to add more context, I dated him from the time I was 23 to 27. While that's not terribly young, I was inexperienced. At 27, I really wanted to marry him and I just felt he would say things like "20 years from now, we'll do this" but when it came to the subject of marriage, his responses were vague. He also lived in another country for most of our relationship, and we would communicate through long video chats and emails most days, and he'd fly to see me every couple of months. I do believe that he was looking to end things with his wife: he lived in a different city from her for work and he flew back once every couple of weeks to see his young daughter. I mentioned that I wanted us to be out in the open for years, but he didn't really make efforts to do that until was ready to leave. He was out of work for some of that time and property prices were high, so I could understand some reluctance.
I do think we love each other, perhaps to an obsessive level. I spent more time missing him than being with him. I think when I broke up with him, all of his abandonment issues surfaced and he lashed out. I don't think his behavior was appropriate. I also am sad that while he spent months post-break up lashing out, he did not contact me when he had his cancer scare the following year.
He criticized me lacking patience and faith, and he did get actually get divorced after we broke up. I just wonder if I had stayed, would it have worked out. I haven't had the same intensity of feelings for anyone since him. He told me to ignore stats and pessimism and follow my heart in having a relationship with him. In the end, I couldn't do it. I think we needed to break up and he needed to sort his life out. I just wish I hadn't lied to him and I regret hurting him.
Just to add more context, I dated him from the time I was 23 to 27. While that's not terribly young, I was inexperienced. At 27, I really wanted to marry him and I just felt he would say things like "20 years from now, we'll do this" but when it came to the subject of marriage, his responses were vague. He also lived in another country for most of our relationship, and we would communicate through long video chats and emails most days, and he'd fly to see me every couple of months. I do believe that he was looking to end things with his wife: he lived in a different city from her for work and he flew back once every couple of weeks to see his young daughter. I mentioned that I wanted us to be out in the open for years, but he didn't really make efforts to do that until was ready to leave. He was out of work for some of that time and property prices were high, so I could understand some reluctance.
I do think we love each other, perhaps to an obsessive level. I spent more time missing him than being with him. I think when I broke up with him, all of his abandonment issues surfaced and he lashed out. I don't think his behavior was appropriate. I also am sad that while he spent months post-break up lashing out, he did not contact me when he had his cancer scare the following year.
He criticized me lacking patience and faith, and he did get actually get divorced after we broke up. I just wonder if I had stayed, would it have worked out. I haven't had the same intensity of feelings for anyone since him. He told me to ignore stats and pessimism and follow my heart in having a relationship with him. In the end, I couldn't do it. I think we needed to break up and he needed to sort his life out. I just wish I hadn't lied to him and I regret hurting him.
reply to anonymous
send this answer to a friendIf he truly loved you, he would have been with you. Or let you go. Stringing you along for four years is not the behaviour of a person who actually loves another. He kept you interested by making vague promises that he had no intention of following through with. "20 years from now, we'll do this" - pure BS. Did he really think you were going to put your life and dreams on hold for twenty years while he made up his mind? What he did was a textbook, classic manipulative tactic.
And the scarcity principle applied as well. That's been used since time began, to make something seem more valuable than it is ("There's only a few left of these Franklin Mint Nascar commemorative plates! Get them while you can!") Because you only saw each other every two months, he seemed like a rare jewel, which added to the intensity of your feelings for him.
Also, abandonment issues are no excuse for what he did. That's not how mature, emotionally healthy people react. You got out of his control and he punished you for it. And no - he had no intention of marrying you. Your leaving the relationship may have been a catalyst, but if you stayed together, things would have remained the same (why would he change this situation that was so convenient for him?) So you had two choices: stay in this stagnant excuse for a relationship or break free and gain your life back. You did the right thing. Yes - the actual way you broke free was flawed, but not the actual break. So don't make the method the sticking point. However you got out, you still did the right thing by getting out.
You were manipulated into an dysfunctional situation for four years. That takes a while to get over; most people need some outside help to get there. So I'm very glad to read that you're looking for a therapist!
And the scarcity principle applied as well. That's been used since time began, to make something seem more valuable than it is ("There's only a few left of these Franklin Mint Nascar commemorative plates! Get them while you can!") Because you only saw each other every two months, he seemed like a rare jewel, which added to the intensity of your feelings for him.
Also, abandonment issues are no excuse for what he did. That's not how mature, emotionally healthy people react. You got out of his control and he punished you for it. And no - he had no intention of marrying you. Your leaving the relationship may have been a catalyst, but if you stayed together, things would have remained the same (why would he change this situation that was so convenient for him?) So you had two choices: stay in this stagnant excuse for a relationship or break free and gain your life back. You did the right thing. Yes - the actual way you broke free was flawed, but not the actual break. So don't make the method the sticking point. However you got out, you still did the right thing by getting out.
You were manipulated into an dysfunctional situation for four years. That takes a while to get over; most people need some outside help to get there. So I'm very glad to read that you're looking for a therapist!
reply to Jill
send this answer to a friendJust seconding Jill's comments, above.
Anon, there's nothing you've said about this guy that is even remotely promising. Clearly, you realize that you are well rid of him -- and you are completely correct!
Okay, but could you have ended it more cleanly?
Yeah, maybe.
But so what?
Look, he put you in a position where you had to get out -- and he continually made it emotionally awkward and difficult to do so. Which meant that of course it would be a little messy.
Remember: He worked hard to ensure that you would have to do it messily. He was never, ever going to make escaping his control an easy option. He's a manipulator; that's what manipulators do.
Anon, I'm glad you are seriously exploring therapy. It will really help you not just to get over this, but also to give you the tools to ensure it doesn't happen again!
Also, one last thing: you do not ever owe apologies to anyone for ending a relationship to save your mental health! Ending it was the best thing for you .... and you really didn't "hurt" him at all.
(Yes, he was angry that the easy, convenient-for-him relationship ended, but he wasn't hurt. He's just learned that when he throws a tantrum, sometimes certain people will give him his way. So that's what he did -- and when it didn't work this particular time, he moved on to someone else. I guarantee that this same, exact controlling behaviour is exactly what he's doing right now with his new, young wife.)
Anon, there's nothing you've said about this guy that is even remotely promising. Clearly, you realize that you are well rid of him -- and you are completely correct!
Okay, but could you have ended it more cleanly?
Yeah, maybe.
But so what?
Look, he put you in a position where you had to get out -- and he continually made it emotionally awkward and difficult to do so. Which meant that of course it would be a little messy.
Remember: He worked hard to ensure that you would have to do it messily. He was never, ever going to make escaping his control an easy option. He's a manipulator; that's what manipulators do.
Anon, I'm glad you are seriously exploring therapy. It will really help you not just to get over this, but also to give you the tools to ensure it doesn't happen again!
Also, one last thing: you do not ever owe apologies to anyone for ending a relationship to save your mental health! Ending it was the best thing for you .... and you really didn't "hurt" him at all.
(Yes, he was angry that the easy, convenient-for-him relationship ended, but he wasn't hurt. He's just learned that when he throws a tantrum, sometimes certain people will give him his way. So that's what he did -- and when it didn't work this particular time, he moved on to someone else. I guarantee that this same, exact controlling behaviour is exactly what he's doing right now with his new, young wife.)
reply to Kal
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Quarantine has me going down memory lane. Way down, 9 years ago, to my first adult relationship. It was four years long, He was 21 years older than me, and he was married. I hated that fact, and eventually, I decided to end it. But I didn't end it cleanly. I started seeing someone else about 4 months before calling it quits. Once I did end it, my ex sent me threatening emails, hacked into my accounts, made fake social media profiles with my name, and basically stunned me into cutting off all communication with him. He found out I had been seeing someone else and was livid. He even sent an email telling this to my father (who he had never met).
The thing is .... I loved my ex. I still love him to this day. Once I said I wanted to break up with him, he offered to get separated, meet his brother and even gave me his wife's phone number so I could see for myself that the marriage was ending. i think by that point I had given up hope and I was too young and too used to secrets to calmly talk things out.
I recently found out what happened to him. He got divorced, had a cancer scare, met another woman and got married in one year, then became a born again Christian. He was never religious before, and his new wife also seems much younger than him.
He never contacted me during his cancer scare. He also never apologized. When we were together, he told me how rare love is and that's why he pursued me, because he wanted to spend his life with me, yet he married someone else after knowing her for a year.
I'm afraid I'll never find someone I feel so passionately in love with again. I'm also afraid I'm mistaking passion itself for love. I devoted so much to him, but he only saw the betrayal at the end.
I never really moved on. Are these feelings dumb? How can I let go?
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